Peter: [00:00:00] Hey Gaurav. Thank you so much for joining us on the next CMO podcast. I'm really excited for this conversation today and to get us going. I'd love it. If you could tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey into this current role and in just a little bit about cognizant for the two people who don't know you.

Guarav: Absolutely pure. First of all, thank you.

so much for having me on this super exciting great to chat to you. Great to meet you about myself. So born brought up in India, spent approximately twenty-five years in India, moved to the U S about 23 odd years ago. Started off my career at Dell. Spent a long time at Dell.

About 18 years. Ended my career as the CMOs. Dell's enterprise business. So server storage, networking, all of those pieces then moved over to century link and was the CMO there for a couple of years. And then about three years ago, moved over to cognizant as the CMO role at cognizant Peter it's it's it's.[00:01:00]

It's a full fledged CMO role. So everything from communications, brand, field marketing all aspects, sponsorships, everything is covered within that role, which honestly is a really. Which was, which was really important for me because it was a company that was going through a ton of transformation.

And it's really difficult to support transformations when there are key pieces that are completely you know, in separate organizations, driven by a separate philosophy and things like that. And Peter at cognizant look, we're a technology services company. We're a fortune 200 company and We provide any and all support around modernizing technology, transforming experiences, reimagining processes, which is a big deal in the digital world.

Along those lines for our clients. That's, that's what we do here at con. 

Peter: Well, it's, it's an amazing company and I was doing a little bit of research, but. The call just to try to put some finer [00:02:00] points on it. A couple of things stood out. So in fiscal 21, 18 and a half billion in revenue. So get your head around that. That's a pretty big number, obviously. And she said one of the top 200 companies in the fortune list two and a half billion cashflow from operations which is, which is pretty amazing in, but this really blew me away.

330,000 employees. And 41,000 added in the last year alone. So that's some serious, serious growth and in obviously being one of the largest providers of these kinds of digital transformation and transformation services in general, it's obviously a very people centered business to be able to achieve that.

Guarav: absolutely. Entirely a people-centric company. That's the business, honestly, Peter, we are in the 330,000 people in the 40,000, 40 odd thousand people that.

we added last year just speaks to the growth that we're seeing in the kind of [00:03:00] services that our clients need. Look, they've always needed that that kind of service, the pandemic just accelerated their appetite for adoption, for lack of a better word around those digital services, which, which forced us to, you know fundamentally rethink hiring and all of those processes.

And as a result of which, you know, 40,000 more people added and we're, we're hoping we're going to be adding a similar number of people because the demand is not stopping. 

Peter: Yeah, I, I imagine I'm going to come back to the pandemic in a couple of minutes because I have a question about which any, and we're in, in the transformation, but I wanted to start by going to the top. And in in the case of cognizant, I, I went and spent some time as we chatted before we started the call looked at your your, your corporate goals, which is how I like to arrange my marketing in general is starting from the goals.

And there were a couple of things that were really interesting to me. First of all, your goals are. Well articulated, [00:04:00] very clean Excel, accelerating digital globalizing, cognizant repositioning the brand and increasing the relevance to your clients. So I noted a couple of things about that. One is I can see marketing in all of them obviously, and maybe that's just my lens, but, but obviously I can see where you have a lot on your shoulders when it comes to helping the company realize your, your goals.

But if I, if you lean back and look at it, what do you think the role of your marketing function is in realizing these top corporate initiatives?

Guarav: I think, I think Peter you're spot on right. There is a big marketing component in each one of those four things that you called out. Like a lot of folks just go to the repositioning, the cognizant brand as, oh yeah. That's the marketing initiative, but it's way broader than that. Right. So if you think about repositioning.

Cognizant Brian, just, just to walk you through some history, Peter, for context here, when I joined her three years ago, [00:05:00] right? There were two challenges. There were, there were a lot of incredible things about this company and the fact that it had grown to $18 billion in such a quick timeframe, clients loved us, but there were two issues from a branding standpoint that I recognized very quickly.

One. Outside of the United States, which is approximately 75% of our total revenue. A lot of folks have not heard of us. And we're talking about big countries. We're talking about countries like Germany, Japan, Australia. We were not a well-known entity at all. And then even within the U S Peter. We were known more for our offshoring services.

So if I had an Oracle application, for example, running in the United States and I wanted to save some costs on it, could I pour that application? Could I offshore it to a country like India and. 20%, 30% cheaper. Right. We were known more for that yet. 30% of [00:06:00] our revenue at that point in time, three years ago, gained from pure digital stuff.

So think, think cloud, think artificial intelligence, think IOT, you know, pieces like that yet. We never. Credit. So there was a perception issue also among the folks that were aware of cognizant and that's, that's the journey. That's the multi-year marketing journey we went on. So that squarely lives in.

Notion of repositioning the cognizant brand. So creating awareness as well as shifting perception in the places that you're aware, but then digitizing cognizant is a big, big deal. Digitizing cognizant is not just selling digital services. It is also coming across as the next generation digital company.

Well, if you show up as a very predated company with an all visual identity and. Feel the clients are just not going to trust you in your ability to truly digitize them and be that digital [00:07:00] transformation partner. So cognizant plays a key role there, globalizing cognizant that's a core part of creating that awareness, you know, in all your top priority countries, across the globe, which becomes really critical.

And this last point you mentioned about client relevancy, which is where you don't talk leadership and sales enablement becomes really critical because. Improving client relevancy means talking to clients in a way that they truly acknowledge you as that digital transformation partner for that you need world-class talk leadership and you need world-class sales enablement.

So you'll see. You can have the right conversation with the right persona at the right time. And that persona piece is one of the most critical things. Right? One of the other things, when I joined cognizant Peter was the fact that look, we were well known in the CIO and the CTO community, but look at today's world today's world is drastically transformed me as the CMS.

I am making several IP [00:08:00] decisions. I'm making decisions around what kind of predictive analytics technologies do I want to go with? How do I want to set my geo-fencing and geo-targeting what kind of technology do I want on the web and how do I want to be able to track people in the doc funnel as well as the non funnel?

All of these decisions are entirely the CMOs decision and it is absolutely, there is a partner to help integrate these technologies. But I'm the person making that, those decisions. Right. So take, take that entire thing together. And like you said, you quit. Do you realize marketing has a strong footprint in each and every one of these key. 

Peter: Yeah, it's, it's amazing. And I love the idea in about reaching beyond the CIA office into the broader C-suite. And I'd imagine that it is, you indicated that. In a lot of cases, it's not just the marketing technology kind of [00:09:00] decisions that the CMO is involved with. It's the digital transformation of the company of the experience overall, which is a much broader thing.

And although it's interesting because I, I'm not sure what, in your view. How, how often is the CMIO, the driver of a digital transformation in today's large corporate environment.

Guarav: It's the way it, the way I think about it is theater it's components of it, right? There are several aspects of digital transformation. First of all, getting your client facing teams to be able to have the right conversation at the right time with the right persona. There's a core part. Marketing plays in that around sales.

And now. And caught leadership and pieces like that. The second part is technology. When you engage with us as a company, there are many operational aspects around invoicing and billing and all of those kinds of pieces that directly [00:10:00] go into, you know, you could have a very legacy approach. The operational elements, you got to have a very modern approach to those operational elements.

That's where marketing doesn't play a strong, strong role, but then, you know, it, it there's So much research. Peter that strongly suggests that most. I have done 70% of their fact finding even before they engage with the forced company that they want to do business with. Just, I mean, think about that, that fact finding is typically done.

Over the web it's done digitally. And if you don't present yourself in the right way with the right information, then you're completely lost in that knowledge cycle that the client is trying to gain about you as a partner or a vendor or whatever it is. So that aspect marketing plays an incredibly important role, right?

What technologies we want to [00:11:00] adopt, right? To the content that you present in front of us.

Peter: So I think we've clearly established that marketing plays a central role in the execution of your strategies and your key goals that you're trying to accomplish. Overall digital transformation. So, if I look and ask you, what, how would you describe your overall marketing strategy that you use to try to accomplish this broad agenda?

Guarav: Yeah, no, I think, I think Peter, I'll go back to that. The point I made early on in our dialogue, which is this has been in multi-year journey and it will continue to be a multi-year journey to for us, right. At Coptis. And specifically I talked about the two biggest challenges we saw, right. So we went, we, we, we, we, we, we.

After it with a hyper focus on creating. [00:12:00] I've gotten this and as a brand and shifting perception around cognizant as a Brian, and then the first step we embarked on with this journey around sponsorships. Right. And it's interesting. This was at the height of the pandemic, right? When you know, we weren't interacting with people.

There was no element of human interaction. But the sponsorships, we knew what bounced back. We knew there was a massive demand for people to get back together. Right. And sponsorship gave us to really clean wet venues. One is the awareness piece. So if you look at Aston Martin formula one, for example, right.

Incredibly powerful. Both in Europe and Asia. And then after the Netflix drive to survive has become incredibly popular in the U S Stu. So now, you know, you have global awareness being created as a result off the formula one sponsorship because people are seeing a logo on the car everywhere. Race [00:13:00] day.

And the two days before the race, they are on the free practices and the qualifying rounds and all of that kind of stuff. Right. The second thing is the experience show component of components and I'll I'll I'll I'll for example We have the president's cup and we have the LPGA founder's cup.

Golf is one of the most popular sports among the C-suite right. And to be able to engage and interact with professionals and pro-ams, and in the chalet and all of that, that experiential component plays a key role. And like, I can create a one. But then if I have to have the deeper conversation around what cognizant is, what do we stand for?

How can we help you? That's where the experiential component comes into play in a big, big way. So that was the second key aspect of our sponsorships. Right? And then the third element from this was the digital element which is. Put together a really strong digital strategy of how do you engage with your [00:14:00] clients in a world that is not meeting face-to-face.

How do you engage with your clients digitally? How do you establish that relevancy for them? How do you target them appropriately? And how do you build that relationship with them digitally? Those were the key core components around how we kicked off our marketing strategy. That was step one. Step two, which we very recently embarked on was the whole visual identity change.

And I talk about it in the sense that if you want someone to believe you're the digital transformation partner, you have to show up with the right look and feel. You have to show up with the right visual identity. And we just had a massive overall of our entire visual identity to make it a lot more digital to make it a lot more. 

Peter: Well, it's amazing how coherent your strategy is. First of all, it's very clear. I, and it makes a lot of sense and it's interesting or. I actually used an [00:15:00] example of that basic kind of strategy as a way in, in my book and the next CMO book to describe decision-making as an example. So one of the key values of a clearly articulated strategy is it's a, it's a one, it sort of amplifies your investments of course, but to it all.

It's a really good way to facilitate decision-making. So if your chief revenue officer comes to you and says, Hey, I want to bring a bunch of customers to a big golf tournament. And, and it's completely aligned with your sponsorship for LPGA. And in what you're trying to do with sort of engaged hospitality is part of the brand experience you say yes, but if your strategy is like mine, which is a thought leader, Amplified by digital then no, it's not the right strategy because we, we don't do 

Guarav: not the right thing 

Peter: So you have a very well articulated strategy. What I like about it is that [00:16:00] it also speaks to a lot of the goals that you have. You talked about globalization in bringing in F1 as an example is a great way. I say, Hey, I want to be relevant in Germany. And guess what, you know, in Germany and France and all over Europe in, in, in Asia, you know, F1 is huge, of course in, in you get that multilayered kind of benefit, not only you to get the visibility, but you hit on the thing that I think is really critical on top of that is how does.

Get the visibility. You get an incredibly positive association because you're now connected to the other brands that are on that Aston Martin. And and, and to the Aston Martin brand overall, which says, Hey, this is a, an extremely powerful, meaningful brand. And then you add in the the experiential part of it, which I think is really powerful.

Especially as you start to fold in that goal of getting. I see I to say that, Hey, I can [00:17:00] get in sort of broader relationships within these corporate environments to, to get there. So that's that, that it's amazing and very, very well said. You'd be surprised how few CEOs. Can answer that question clearly about what their marketing strategy is.

And if you're listening out there and you're a CMO, you should think about that. Because it, it is one of the differences between between world-class CMOs and not world-class is the ability to define and articulate and execute a clear strategy. And with that in mind, I was going to ask you another thing, which is about which is about.

In an organization is broad and complex is cognizant how much marketing do you do versus managing. And so tell me a little bit about how much you can, you personally can get involved in, in the work.

Guarav: It's I think, I think it's a choice point, Peter, at the end of the day. And I learned that very early on in my career. It is, it is purely a choice point [00:18:00] around how much do you want to get involved? And the choice point is basically if you want to have a 12 hour day, or you want to have an 18 hour day, that is entirely up to you.

Me personally, I like to get. But there are elements. I would be the first one to admit there are elements that I like to get deeper on sponsorships. A sponsorship strategy, sponsorship execution is something that is critical because Peter, again, from my standpoint, All about the customer journey, you touch upon them digitally upfront.

And then that moment of truth, where you get to see them face-to-face and get to communicate your value proposition, what you stand for, how you can help them is such a critical moment of truth. I will make sure that everything around it is done, right? So I tend to get involved very closely there. The MarTech stack, the MarTech stack is something that is so critical to me because again, 70% of these folks are doing all of their research about you in the dark funnel.

And you don't even [00:19:00] know it. You better have the right market stack to ensure that they're reading the right stuff about you on the right sites at the right time. That's critical. So elements like that, I choose to get very, very closely involved in. Now, Peter, the one thing I will say right is Taking into consideration the pandemic and what we went through as a human race in terms of being connected with each other, that severe.

Increase the amount of face time having to spend with people, talking to them through things. And all of that email is not the only way to communicate I am is not the best way to communicate phone calls without video are, are good, but not great, but just having that face to face interaction. So, so one can, I could, I could argue that I spent a lot of time around the classic leadership aspects of my [00:20:00] role, just given the situation.

We were in, but yeah, to me, it is a choice point. It is what it w what are you passionate about? What do you want to really, really, really get, right. And how much do you want to be personally involved in those elements? So I can, I can pretty confidently tell you I have a fairly balanced approach to the operational aspects, the leadership aspects, but also the core marketing stuff that gets me all excited and all of that. 

Peter: Well, it it's, it's funny. It sounds very familiar. Or I have to to my, my experience last experience as a CFO. Was it nuance in about a $2 billion company? I think I mentioned we did about a hundred acquisitions in the time that that I was there. So a lot of the work that I I had to do was it was sort of onboarding, indoctrinating, you know, new marketing teams all the time.

But the, the work that I enjoyed the most was the time that I was there for 13 years and we repositioned the company four times. And not for [00:21:00] nothing. I mean, we repositioned it because we transformed the company four times. And in that was, that was incredibly important work. And in part of the role of the CMO in my mind is, is translating that corporate strategy.

Into into, you know, that it not only external kind of communication, but especially where you have a large workforce, that internal kind of communication at the same time, making sure that everyone is rowing in the right direction. Everyone knows how to live the brand that the right way. So I I'm, I'm sure that's an important thing.

And I also can relate to that. Hard trade-offs between, I mean, there's so much to do in so many exciting things to do. It's I wish there were some more hours in the day.

Guarav: And in, in Peter, in the situation you described right there with nuance, you have to be the face of that transformation in order to be a genuine and legitimate face of that transformation. You have to [00:22:00] have your fingerprints all over the transformation. So you cannot be a spectator and be able to represent that work successfully.

Right. If you're. Closely and passionately and personally involved in the creation of a lot of that. And I completely understand your point. I mean, over the last few years, we've made $3 billion in acquisition. So I completely get where you're coming from, because you've got to do that along with transforming the brand and the company, all of these things have to happen in harmony. 

Peter: Well, I tell you, you mentioned fingerprints and I'll tell you my secret to doing for mostly successful brand transformations was Of course some about you as the CMO. But it's almost more about the other senior executives in the company. And in other key stakeholders who have to be part of in half to live that transformation.

And the key thing I found is that they have to see their fingerprints in it. So not only do you [00:23:00] have to, you know, drive and guide and manage. But they have to see and believe because if they don't deeply embrace that transformation, it's not going to stick the same way. 

Guarav: it's not going to happen. Yeah, you exactly. 

Peter: So speaking of transformation, how do you like that segue?

The we've seen in the pandemic, just an incredible amount of rapid digital transformation that's going on. And I'm struck by the fact that even. These little companies blow me away with what they've been able to do in the local restaurant or pizza joint, who can all of a sudden pivot to doing online ordering and curbside delivery.

And in all this stuff is just mind blowing to me that small business people have been able to adapt large companies have different issues, obviously because of the complexity of their infrastructure over time. But it made me wonder, and I was having a conversation about this with someone earlier [00:24:00] today.

That the work that's gone on and transformation in a lot of companies, a lot of experience has been very visible, but I'm not sure how deep it is. And from your perspective, because cognizant of course is architecting a lot of these transformations and certainly is studying transformation quite deeply.

What inning would you say we're in, in most companies, digital transformations? Are we just at the surface? Are we just at the beginning? Was this work over the last couple of years during the pandemic? A lot of sort of moving deck chairs around on the Titanic or was there real fundamental transformation that companies, when.

Guarav: I think, I think, I think various companies based on my experience, various companies are. In various moments of the journey, right? If I was to generalize, I would say in most places we are past the first innings enrich [00:25:00] case. You have a digital veneer that folks interact with, right. We are past that first innings because especially in large companies, Peter, just, just think about the mechanics of a large company for a second.

Right? They've got a ton of legacy applications that sit on the back end, those legacy applications. Core elements like revenue, operational P, and L statements and all of those kinds of things for the company. Sure. You can digitize the front end, but at some point in time, that front end has to talk to that backend and it has to be harmonized.

So a lot of companies, I would say are. Getting past that front end veneer of digitizing and getting into the core work of how do I connect that front end to that backend? How do I fully modernize the backend? So you hear a lot about, you know journey to the cloud, the multicloud, the hybrid cloud, that's where all of that is coming from.

[00:26:00] 100% modernizing the backend and connecting that back end to that front end and therefore digitizing the end to end ecosystem across the board. My, my, my take, if I was to generalize, like I said, theater with would be we're past the first innings. We're getting into the second endings and now we're getting into the more complex media.

Cause. Cause if you think about some of the legacy infrastructure that exists in healthcare companies, banking companies and things like that, it's it's years and years and years of infrastructure that's been built in a certain way. 

Peter: Yeah, it's interesting. I was going to bring up healthcare cause I know that's a key vertical for, for cognizant, obviously. And it's gone through a massive change in the last in, in the last couple of years, really accelerated in the delivery model has changed, which is fascinating. So you went from the point of going into the [00:27:00] doctor's office in the hospital all the time to all of a sudden there's the idea of completely distributed health care.

Guarav: Virtual 

Peter: Tele-health and and then the the rapid redeployment of talent that's required with with the with, with spikes and needs for, for different healthcare providers that on top of the fact that we're we're right in the middle of a major. A transformation of the us healthcare system.

You know, and they're just started through the transformation to ICD 10 which is the new billing codes relate. So just massive stuff going on. I can imagine that that there's a lot of work to be done, I guess that's good news for cognizant because there's a lot of work to be done. And but, but it seems like.

The bigger the company, the harder the journey is going to be in general, even though they have a lot of resources, there's just a lot of legacy to deal with. I imagine.

Guarav: That's that's better. That's exactly. That's well said. That's [00:28:00] exactly right. And in, in Peter, like a lot of folks identify with their personal situation or on virtual medicine or telehealth. Just, just think about one instance, which we're all aware of. Just think about the clinical trials process for a pharmaceutical company that typically takes years.

Now imagine digitizing that so that these companies can come up with something like a COVID vaccination sooner rather than later. And all the digitization work that has to go behind the scenes to make that clinical trials process move a lot faster. That's the kind of work that we're doing, which is incredibly exciting. 

Peter: Yeah. And I think the, the biggest thing that we've probably seen in the last couple of years is just the need for agility in, in companies. And from obviously the pandemic to all of the follow on impacts things like the supply chain Talked about the collapsing timeframes for bringing new products, to market new drugs, to market, [00:29:00] things like that.

We're now in the middle of some interest in the economic turbulence that I expect to see happen and and we see it and, you know, my company and planet from the, this idea of sort of agile planning and how do you sort of adjust on the fly, but obviously if you're not a. Mostly digital kind of enterprise.

The idea of pivoting your operation in, in real time is, is incredibly intimidating for most people I suspect. And I suspect if you haven't gone through this transformation, you may not thrive in the long-term I guess is the point.

Guarav: Okay, Peter that's that's exactly right, because just you're talking about company transformations, but through the pandemic, imagine the marketing transformation that's also had to happen. If you weren't pivoted towards the digital forest in your engagement with clients, imagine. The trouble you had engaging clients through this pandemic process.

If you were relying on legacy [00:30:00] tactics, like email and events and things like that, just just imagine the difficulty in being able to select as, as, as, as you point.

out as these transformation occurred at, at, at, at like a highly strategic layer at all of these companies, they also occurred within marketing organizations.

For these companies around the adoption of digital and a lot of those techniques, which in all honesty in the B2B world work are not as pervasive as you think they will. 

Peter: Yeah, no, it's it's, it's absolutely true. I was going to ask you to grow I've if you look a lot of people from the outside might say. $20 billion, almost company, lots of resources. It must be, you know, quote unquote, easy for them to do things because they have the ability to do things. What do you think people would find surprising about about a marketing organization of your scale?[00:31:00]

Guarav: I think and, and I'll, I'll, I'll speak from my personal example of me at cognizant. And that's definitely not the, the, the case today, because we have we've matured and become a lot more sophisticated, but, but again, back to that point around the lack of digital first mentality I think people will find surprising.

I think people will find surprising that the challenges that exist in a small company from a budget standpoint absolutely exist in large companies and the amount of. Talk tinking changes that you have to make within your own population of marketers and get them defining that strategy. Making sure that strategy goes all the way down to the last person in the organization.

And everybody is working towards one common goal. The work that it takes to get that done, I don't think is any different [00:32:00] irrespective of. A small company or a large company, the other aspect, at least for cognizant, you know, a lot of people think about, oh, you know, these large companies are not entrepreneurial.

They're not innovative. Just embracing that entrepreneurial side of a company like ours, even though, you know, we're close to $20 billion, Peter, that's also fascinating. And I think people will find those things really, really support. 

Peter: It's amazing. And, and I certainly add a, a solid solidly Lilly, large middle-sized company experienced some of the same, you know, some of the some of the really innovative people who've done really clever. Even in a large organization in certainly a lot of challenges around the, the tricky puzzle of trying to find resources.

The it's interesting. I had a, my, my CEO when I was at nuance was famous for the following. I'd go to him and say, Hey, I need to fund something. That's [00:33:00] $50,000. And, you know, out of our, you know, $150 million budget and and he'd say, so. you mean to tell me that that $50,000 is the last money you would spend out of the 150 million?

And then of course I go with my tail, but then it said, no, of course. And I go and find something else to prioritize, but it's very difficult to do when you don't have visibility you've got a highly distributed organization, which by the way, is the story why I built this company planet. That's what we do.

So which is, but it's a, it's a, it's a funny thing to get back to that. So believe it or not, we're, we're actually running up against the end of our time. Gorev and this has been an amazing conversation that that hopefully people enjoy as much as I did, because it was a, it was a great view into into your world and a little bit of triggering memories into some of the challenges and exciting things that I went through in my last CMO role.

So maybe one last question that we'd like to ask everyone is what [00:34:00] advice would you give to, to current or aspiring CMOs?

Guarav: the advice I would give honestly, is first of all, that digital perspective is always have that digital mindset. When you're thinking about engaging with clients, because if you're not engaging with them digitally, somebody. And it's not you. And that's a problem, right? The customer journey becomes a really critical element and the pandemic really, really taught us a hard lesson on that one.

How do you engage with clients digitally upfront? How do you create that awareness through tactics like sponsorships, but then how do you strategically use things like experiential, right. To get deeper into that customer journey. That's one critical thing. And then the social aspect of the world we are in today is something that we don't talk about much.

And with. The younger generations, both from a workforce standpoint, as well as from client standpoint, [00:35:00] they want companies, they believe companies have a responsibility and they believe in companies talking about their social values about their purpose and all of those pieces. And a lot of clients ask us now of that.

And I'll just give you two quick examples, Peter, the same GP sponsorship that we do. Major focus on sustainability. In fact, as, as negative as formula one is considered. One of the things that we're working with Aston Martin is to get them to the net zero carbon footprint by 2030, the diversity angle that we chose when we picked the LPGA.

The cup where we doubled the price money, because it is our strong belief that, you know, world-class male and female athletes should absolutely be paid the same amount. And we, we, we, you know, diversity is a big problem in the technology sector and we're doing our piece to contribute to make sure that we can improve diversity and equal standing in all of the sectors.

It's that social [00:36:00] mentality around sustainability, diversity and inclusion. That is also a key part of our marketing has job. Do not forget that boat for your internal audiences, but also as an obligation to your clients. Those are the things here that I would say are just quick top level things that no market issue. 

Peter: Well, thank you for sharing that perspective, Guarav and in all of your insights. And it's, it's clear that you are. Being a strong steward of the brand and trying to live the cognizant brand and, and expand the impact of that. It's really inspiring to hear what you're thinking about especially in the area of social responsibility.

It's that's the way that we're going to see significant change in this world. So really appreciate what you've done. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate it. Amazing conversation and And for those of you who have interest in learning more about our show, go check us out at planet.com.

We have a CMO community called [00:37:00] the next CMO community that you can join there. If you have ideas or suggestions for, for other shows, send us a note@thenextcmoatplanet.com. Follow us on all those social things and thank you for listening and can't wait for the next episode. Thanks again. Thanks guys. 

Guarav: Thank you, Peter.