TheNextCMO’s latest podcast is with Julie Zadow the Executive VP and CMO of DemandSpring. Julie is a growth marketing leader skilled at aligning marketing talent and content strategy with business goals. As DemandSpring's CMO, Julie works with marketing leaders to build true Revenue Marketing disciplines inside their organizations. In this episode, we cover her latest blog post discussing 9 ways executive coaching can help you advance your career.
Julie Zadow - https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliezadow/
The Standing Taller Series: 9 Ways Executive Coaching Can Help you Advance your Career: https://demandspring.com/blog/the-standing-taller-series-9-ways-executive-coaching-can-help-you-advance-your-career/
Demand Spring - https://demandspring.com
For more info about Plannuh, check out our website
Kelsey Krapf 0:20
Welcome to the official podcast of the next CMO hosted by Plannuh. The next CMO is a thought leadership podcast for those that are CMOS or wants to become one. My name is Kelsey Krapf and I am the senior marketing manager.
Peter Mahoney 0:36
And I'm Peter and I'm the founder and CEO of Plannuh.
Kelsey Krapf 0:40
For this week we had Julie's dado the executive VP and CMO of demand spring as our guests. Julie wrote a series of blog articles on executive coaching and how to advance your career. I wanted to invite her on the show because I think people really appreciate learning about how they can become more successful. And what tools and resources are out there. Thanks for coming on. Julie. How are you this afternoon?
Julie Zadow 1:05
I'm very well Kelsey, thanks very much for having me.
Kelsey Krapf 1:08
Thanks for coming on board. Can you tell me a little bit about yourself and your role as the CMO of demand spring?
Julie Zadow 1:15
Sure. So I have been in the marketing space in the marketing leadership space for quite some time at this point and sort of proud of all of the experiences and battle scars that I have gathered along the way. You know, I described myself like many people in the CMO and CMO of the future space as a growth marketing leader, my firm demand spring, we really focus on that intersection of technology, talent and content to create more measurable marketing outcomes. So that's what we work on as a global virtual marketing consultancy and in my role as the SVP and cmo and residents, I'm tasked with both working with our clients and helping them strengthen their own marketing leadership. posture, if you will. But also I get to work with our own staff and kind of drinking our own champagne and taking the learnings that we try to share with our clients and making sure we're doing our best to infuse those in how we run our own company too.
Peter Mahoney 2:13
So Julie, what one quick question is, how can you be the CMO in residence if you're a virtual company?
Unknown Speaker 2:22
Well, I think the best answer I can give you to that is we as marketers especially have to believe that anything that's possible in a physical incantation is possible virtually as well.
Peter Mahoney 2:32
Excellent. Very well put. And I agree with that. In Julie I, I'm excited about this conversation because we we of course, know each other and I saw this article that Kelsey had mentioned before and pointed out to me that you wrote about nine ways executive coaching can help advance your career sounds like a very good listy kind of blog article, but it was actually unlike some of the fluffy things. I thought it was a really good thoughtful approach. And I, I've had some great experiences with executive coaching throughout my career. And and I thought it was a great reminder about some of the value and it's it's one of those. It's one of those tools that I'm not sure many CMOS realize that they should be thinking about in their toolbox. So, so I thought it would be great to kind of go through some of your recommendations and chat about them in a little bit more details. That sound okay for you.
Unknown Speaker 3:31
Yeah, that sounds great. And, you know, actually, Peter, one point I want to make is that the concept of executive coaching is very real, and very familiar to CEOs. And you're absolutely right, less familiar to CMOS, you know, at this point in time in the world. But what's interesting is we can both relate to how much more specific measurable revenue pressure exists on the shoulders of CMOS in a way that's very different than was the truth say You know, 10 years ago when marketing leadership objectives were to keep the, you know, kind of beer cold and the coffee warm and to show up as a caddy for sales. Nowadays, CMOS, are really embracing the pressure of proving marketing's impact on sales, forecasted pipeline on growth of a company. Those are the same dynamics that used to define the CEO role and became some of the truths and the pressures that led CEOs to seek out executive coaches so that they had a real partner in helping them make strategic leadership decisions. So I think it's just a natural evolution of the CMO role that in the same way that CEOs for many decades have used executive coaches. It would make sense given the kind of pressures that CMOS are under today, that executive coaching would become a partner in how they get their jobs done well as well.
Peter Mahoney 4:50
Yeah, it's interesting, Julie, because my most of my experience comes from working very closely with a couple of CEO coaches. So you You're exactly right. And we found them incredibly valuable. And I know some of your recommendations that we'll get to in a second, highlight this. But the The reality is that, as a CEO, for example, you, you have to be in charge of everything, and you're not an expert in everything. And as a CMO in a contemporary organization, you have to realize that marketing is an incredibly broad practice. And it doesn't mean that you have to have incredible depth in every single domain within marketing. So having some kind of a third party who can sort of reflect on you, your team, your organization is I find incredibly valuable. I certainly saw that from the CEO perspective, and it could really see the application here. So the first thing you talk about is getting someone you can trust. So talk a little bit about the importance of a trusted relationship when it comes to some kind of a coach.
Unknown Speaker 6:00
Well, I think if I'm being honest, and I'm reflecting on a lot of the conversations I've had with some of my executive coaching clients, I think precisely because of how much volatility there is in the CMO role, which is widely broadcast, the CMO having the shortest tenure in the C suite, etc, and so forth, it can be a lonely job. And to your point that the CEO role, you know, you kind of envision, you know, a competent leader who has the courage to look at his team or her team and say, I don't have all the answers, and I don't know what each of you do, but my job is to extract the best of what's possible from this, you know, very diverse, you know, creation of humans standing in front of me and use the power of that to grow my company. The problem is, I don't actually think the power stance of the CMO has has caught up to that in such a way that I wish I saw more CMOS who confidently stood up and said, I haven't done all the jobs of all the people that are working For me, I don't know how all these jobs work. But my job is to figure out how to harness the full power of all of these individual capabilities to move the meter forward on marketing success. And the issue is B precisely because it's not as common to hear a CMO be able to say what they don't know and what they've never done before, it can create a pretty lonely dynamic at the top. And as a result, a CMO is someone who can benefit from an executive coach because it can be that one trusted business confident that they can actually unpack what it's like to lead in that somewhat lonely place to and hopefully help them sort of, you know, kind of coalesce all of their ideas and their aspirations and their frustrations into something that actually helps them as leaders move forward
Kelsey Krapf 7:49
with marketing changing constantly and evolving. You know, someone could have done the job 10 years ago, but it's changed drastically since those 10 years ago based on just the trend of marketing and how You know, there's constant changes. So how can you keep up and having an executive and someone that you trust that isn't, you know, knows the business but knows how to operate things. I think that's really beneficial from just a mindset standpoint.
Unknown Speaker 8:15
Yeah, Kelsey, and I'm sure you can relate in your own career to that whole adage of work smarter, not harder. And I almost think that an executive coach can help a CMO do do because to your point, a CMO can't do all the jobs because the jobs have changed so much in just the last five years alone.
Peter Mahoney 8:32
So it's interesting, one of the things that you bring up here, Julie is, is the idea of the CMO having to having to basically be confident enough to to communicate the fact that they don't know everything. And I was wondering, do you see a difference in female CEO CMOS versus male CMOS as they behave because they're really interesting dynamic. MX right? So I've seen a lot of research that says that men tend to, you know, either convince themselves or others that they know everything. But at the same time, it's probably and you can speak to this obviously, better than I can. It's, it's extremely difficult to you have to project a lot of strength as a female CEO, cmo. So how does that balance out in in? Do you see any difference in the way that male CMOS versus female CMOS sort of present themselves in this area?
Unknown Speaker 9:31
I'm gonna kind of pull classic politicians move on you and I'm gonna answer a version of your question, but not exactly the question you asked. So I'm just calling myself out on doing that before I do it. Here's what I see. And I would say at this point, my executive coaching clients are split, you know, gender, I've found an equal balance of male to female CMOS, and they are equally skilled in their ability to confidently convince people that they've got this regardless of whether they they've actually done this. And or they're otherwise equally skilled in calling out where their job isn't to know everything but to lead a team of other knowers forward, where I see this gap that you bring up is probably in the next cmo category. It's that one level down in my personal life. In business, I have seen more of that level of confidence manifest in sort of next cmo prototypes who are men than I have with women. So one of my favorite things to do with aspiring CMOS, especially if they're women is help them in any way I can to unpack what has held them back from embracing and exuding that level of confidence to show that they can get to the next level. But by and large, the most successful CMOS I know once they get to that level, regardless of whether they're male or female, have that level of confidence and that ability to communicate clearly and effective. dively and coalesce the people around them to believe in them.
Peter Mahoney 11:03
Well, that wasn't an answer. That was like a extra answer. That would That was excellent. Because I think it's great insight, Julie and and when you said that I definitely have recognized that I see that in and I'm thrilled that you're you you're working with, with women to help them project and get to that next step in their career, because there are some amazing female CMOS out there, obviously. But I suspect with if you look at the density, the gender diversity in marketing in general, there are there are a lot of women in marketing, there aren't enough they should have more than their fair share of cmo seats. And I think some of it comes from the, you know, the sometimes undeserved confidence that people have at that to say, yeah, sure, I'm ready for that job. So encouraging people to take that leap, I think is a really important thing to do. So let's let's try and get to more than one of the topics on your list. And talk a little bit about the second thing, which is about sort of getting the thoughts out of your head and into the light. as you put it, I assume that's about sort of putting it down on paper or publishing what what your thoughts are versus just sort of keeping them internally what tell us more about that.
Unknown Speaker 12:16
What I would say to that is that CMOS are experts at unpacking the nuances and the truths of their external audiences. But sometimes under represent the amount of effort and time that they should put into really calibrating their understanding of the nuances and truths of their internal audiences. And that's where I see some of my executive coaching clients get into the most trouble in terms of you know, really figuring out who they are, what they think and getting their thoughts out of their own head and out into the light. It's a matter of in the same way that a content expert calibrates their messaging, not just through the lens of what they want to say, but how it's going to land and who's going to hear it and a lot of the time I spent before Clients has to do with thinking through. Okay, this is your 2021 vision, mission and strategy. Let's think about how it's going to land when you explain this to your executive team, who are still split on whether they're really bought into a measurable marketing ROI and your ability to prove it. Let's think about how this messaging lands. When you're proving to, you're confident, the chief research, excuse me, the chief revenue officer, that you can partner with him or her to help him or her hit their goals. And then let's imagine what's going to happen when you take this huge vision. And you start unpacking all of your thoughts for your team. And what you want them to feel is inspired, not terrified and overloaded, the volume of work this is going to mean for each of them and how they're going to figure out how to get it done. So a lot of it is sort of taking those inner thoughts out of the head, bringing them out into the light but calibrating them to each of the different internal audiences that need to receive them in the best possible way. So that that cmo can get the job done that he or she is trying to lead
Peter Mahoney 13:59
you It's about alignment it sounds like and and I know that we work it planet, of course with a lot of marketers to help them build a plan, articulate their goals, and then build a plan that is aligned to InDesign to achieve those goals. And it's a little surprising when you see that a lot of people don't really have well articulated goals and and then even if they have them, that like you said, they may not be connected with the overall organization, there may not be an appreciation or an understanding from one side of the organization to the other, what success looks like they're not bought in. So that idea of of getting really, it's more than more than getting the light. It's actually driving to get agreement, which is probably the hardest part, right? It's more than saying here it is. It's it's, it's making sure you get agreement and if there is an agreement, making sure there's You're sort of driving to the ground and and really get tight alignment. But that that can be really difficult.
Unknown Speaker 15:06
Right. And I think CMOS are excellent at cascading goals and objectives and thinking through nowadays what it means to ensure that the people on their team have measurable goals. I think that next step of kind of cross departmental aligned goals and objectives gets a little murkier, and to some degree, it's going to be hard to figure out how to be agile and how to operate as an integrated C suite, unless you're actually tackling the importance of, you know, cross border goals and objectives and ensuring they're adding up to how you're going to work together to achieve the entirety of the business strategy and not just marketing's contribution to
Peter Mahoney 15:44
it. Yeah, and in this next this next suggestion that you have, you know, clearly is right in the wheelhouse of what you need a coach or a confident for is finding there's you need an outlet, as you said to to voice your fears and what's holding you back Back in that can be difficult to do if you're at the top of the organization, right. So, so I assume that I assume that that kind of coaching relationship. So tell me how that works with a typical client that you have. Is there a lot of crying involved? That I mean, on my side? Or is there you know, what's, what's that like? And how does it feel for a senior leader, to be able to say, I'm worried about this in a way that they they may not be able to share with the rest of their team?
Unknown Speaker 16:32
Right. And I think, again, back to the loneliness at the top theme, it's not always appropriate for a CMO to unpack their level of stress on their team, because sometimes you need to think about the difference of unloading your emotions and the difference between the outcome you're trying to achieve. And those two things don't necessarily come together very easily. So I think for most CMOS that I talked to, having a partner whose job it is to say to them What's keeping you up at night? What are you worried about? what's not working? What are you afraid to say out loud in your executive meeting? What is the difficult conversation with your director of marketing operations or your creative director that you're not having? Why are you avoiding that conversation? What's the worst thing that could happen? You know, at the end of the day, I always like to say successful leaders aren't people who are devoid of fear. But they're people who know how to acknowledge their fear and sort of harness the power of the tension between all the ideas in their head and their fears of what could happen if they capitalized on their biggest possible vision. And that's what executive coaching can help people with. I'm yet to meet a CMO when I asked them what are you afraid of who says nothing? I've never had it happen yet.
Kelsey Krapf 17:48
You brought up a really good point about you know, emotional intelligence and I think when you're at the top and as you continue to mention you're a little bit lonely on the top but we're supposed to be you know, stripped of showing any sort of emotion when we're in this leadership position because it's seen as unprofessional or, you know, we shouldn't be voicing our emotions for certain actions that may happen. And as a marketer things are can be pretty volatile. So, can you explain to me about how you can calibrate on the emotional intelligence that you're talking about here?
Unknown Speaker 18:20
Yeah, you know, I often say that, to me, command and control leadership styles are sort of relics of the industrial age. There's a business iconoclast guy named Gary Hamel, very famous, not just for everything he knows about marketing in any way, but all of the advice. He's given global CEOs about how to run their businesses, and he was famous decades ago, of sort of articulating what that command and control leadership style needed to look like for success. And based on his own CEO level research, he has thrown that out. And his new mantra that he leads with is this idea that in order to create companies that can, you know, empathetically engage with them customers, we have to create companies where humanity can thrive. And if we're not willing to recalibrate, to understand that the constructs of emotional and professional not just can exist together, but have to exist together, if the new normal of customer experience is grounded in the power of genuine empathy, you have to figure out what it means to build that internally for it to manifest externally. So I actually think that this is probably the hardest reset button for a certain percentage of CMOS is to recognize that they need to be in touch with their own emotional state. And they also need to really cultivate an authentic empathy to the emotional state of the people around them if their goal is to infuse more humanity in their marketing messaging is to actually create experience with their customers.
Peter Mahoney 19:52
So yeah, it's interesting, Julie that we Dan Faulkner, our CTO here at planet just wrote a great blog article called the marketing DNA assessment, in part of that is sort of understanding understanding the makeup of your marketing organization, not only from, from your, you know, some of the technical makeup of the organization, but But what is the style of the organization. And in mapping that to, to emotional intelligence is a really interesting thing. And I like the way you connected it to the, to being empathic to your customers. Because if you look at the history of leadership, most of it is driven by war, right? It's, you know, the customer and war I don't know who that is, right? It's, it's, it's amazing in, in introducing just any kind of empathy is is incredibly important in an organization so I can see that we're that is that is really valuable. So the one other thing that you Talk about that I like is, is, is what an external party like a coach can do is they can you call it calling you out on your blind spots? It's it's sort of the emperor has no clothes kind of thing. Right? And so to talk about that, do you have any specific examples, no names of how you might have seen this work in the past?
Unknown Speaker 21:24
Yeah, so sometimes this is just about working very confidentially with a CMO or a marketing leader to sort of ask the kind of discovery questions that help them unpack their own triggers at work so that they can figure out what circumstances don't allow them to show up as the best version of their marketing leadership self and rethink their reaction to that circumstance. I will say though, that you know, one story all names being left out, you know, I have another client extraordinarily senior level person at a very large global company who oftentimes has me in the past in person in meetings and other times on calls and meetings to listen for how that person is presenting themselves is calibrating their vision in a way that other people can get inspired by it. You know, Ted basically help. It's almost like real time observation of blind spots, and then finding the appropriate private moment in an executive coach and confidential session to review what I saw and make some suggestions to help them be a better leader.
Peter Mahoney 22:33
That's great. That's great. And tell me about the this next area, you talk about nudging people outside of their comfort zone, which is kind of related here sometimes, right where if you have getting people to operate differently than they typically are, then they're typically wired to operate I guess is is an important thing. And and why Why does that take someone from the outside versus someone who, who, on your team or or appear or something like that? Why does that outside force make this more effective?
Unknown Speaker 23:13
And well, I would think that if we're being honest with ourselves, CMOS are probably the most skilled C level person in an organization capable of inspiring you to believe that everything they've thought of is both necessary and sufficient to the goals that are trying to be achieved. And it's unlikely that a CMO is going to unpack whether their comfort zone for the goals that they've said could be stretched, if they don't have to, mostly because actually achieving those goals is so hard for all of the reasons around alignment and calibration and measurement and overabundance of technology that we've talked about so many times. So I believe that even the best CMOS can be nudged out of their comfort zone can acknowledgement What might still be holding them back to actually craft a bigger vision than the one they would reflexively come to the table with? And what could happen for that company, if that cmo actually hit an entire global reset button on their vision, if someone just pushed them a little outside the boundaries of how they sculpted in, in its current incantation? And that's one of the things that I find the most rewarding about the work I do. You know, I had, I did report to a CEO once, who, in moment of frustration, said to me, you know, Julie, you know, I feel like you and I are different, because I want to be a leader, and you want to be a helper. And I looked at him and I said, I actually think that makes me the best thing that ever happened to you in a leadership capacity because I've never met a leader who didn't need help. And that's sort of a Lhasa fee that I take to my executive Coaching perspective, which is I'm not trying to replace them, I am not trying to be the leader that they are, I am just trying to help coach them to be the best leader that they can be.
Kelsey Krapf 25:11
But also leaders should be helpful. You know, if you're a leader and you're not showing any sort of help to your team, then, you know, you may get up the top, but it's gonna be pretty lonely. And also people aren't going to look up to you and see you as a mentor. But you could be if you're not in the hoping side, too. So I just agree with that burst that what that person said,
Unknown Speaker 25:32
well, thank you. Maybe I'll drop that person to note and tell them I'm you know, cultivating an army of people on my side who believe that the constructs of leadership and help need not be mutually
Peter Mahoney 25:41
exclusive. An army Here comes to war without a force again.
Julie Zadow 25:44
Yeah, there we go. Because I was trying to break our notions of that.
Kelsey Krapf 25:49
But you talked about, you know, mapping your career vision into a clear plan in order to achieve that and I know we talked about goals and vision. Can you talk a little bit about you know, How marketers can can do this in a better way or see their real vision become a clear plan.
Unknown Speaker 26:09
Yeah, and actually, I've had some particular opportunity to really hone in on this because I have also worked very closely with an executive search firm and helping them launch their cmo executive search practice. So I bring that up by way of saying, I am amazed at how strategic and planful so many CMOS are in terms of how they're articulating the direction of their business. But how little time those same CMOS often leave for articulating the purposeful direction of their careers. And I think that has a lot to do with how utterly overwhelming and time consuming the CMO role can actually be today. But I do think that an executive coach is someone who can call a successful cmo out on the fact that you They need what I call a partner in that making around their career destination goals and not just around their company and branding and product growth goals, in order to ensure that they're giving themselves the best opportunities, they have to be the best leaders, they can be in the best environments where they can gain new and better and different leadership experiences. And I think that an executive coach is the perfect person to do that. Because it is surprisingly something that gets lost along the way for many CMOS as they're otherwise so focused on delivering on those kind of goals for their teams and for their products and for their companies. They need to spend some time ensuring that they occasionally put the oxygen mask on themselves first.
Peter Mahoney 27:43
So truly talk a little bit about the the sort of the value proposition How would a CMO justify spending money on a CMO coach, right? I mean, we talked a lot about a lot here. It's expensive, but you know, in Anything that feels like, Oh, I'm spending it on me that's gonna be looked at badly. How do you get by that? Because I assume, I mean, from what we just talked about, there seems like there's amazing value to the organization. But how do you help them with that problem?
Unknown Speaker 28:16
Yeah, you know, to some degree, a lot of it does come down to the transparency of leadership style and their ability to say, if I work on things that make me better, we will all be better. And I am not so short sighted to believe there's nothing I need to work on. So you're right, that it not every cmo is ready for that conversation. I will admit that some CMOS that I work with prefer to couch this under the budget they have set aside for leadership advisory services, because in a sense, if you think about it, an executive coaches a leadership advisor, and that construct of leadership advisory services is better ingrained and a little more traditional to a line item in a CMO budget, and often times the place where executive coaching arrangement can hide. But otherwise, I think nowadays, especially with so much focus on cultivating and retaining talent, and I think there's an opportunity for a partnership, not just with the CEO on understanding the importance of growing the strengths of the CMO, but a partnership with the Chief Human Resources officer and the learning and development community and saying, Listen, executive coaching needs to be a part of how we grow not just the CMO, but the top leaders who are focused on being the next cmo when we need to build this into our marketing department, retention program planning.
Peter Mahoney 29:36
I think that's really great insight, and you're probably in a unique position to understand what is it that you see that those next cmo candidates aren't doing but need to do to get to that next level? Because I think a lot of our listeners are, are really in that target, right. They're people they They run a piece of the marketing organization or even earlier in their career, but they want to know what are what are the things? What are the paths, way points they need to be laying out so they could get to that top chair later on in their career, and I think you probably have a better perspective than most. So what's your experience, Julie?
Unknown Speaker 30:20
You know, I would say for people really early in their career, everything they can do to get as much diversifies diversified Modern Marketing experience, all the better, even if that means again, nudging yourself out of your comfort zone. You know, for example, let's say you know, you're an expert at content creation, but you don't actually have any idea about how the marketing automation platform that is the beast you're feeding works behind the scenes, I would encourage less experienced marketers to do everything they can to get a baseline well rounded perspective on how all of the parts come together. As someone advances through their career and gets up maybe more to that director level. I think It's that opportunity to recognize that, you know that expression. Most startups die and not because of starvation but because of indigestion, in a sense, just taking on too many things and trying to do too many things. Well, as opposed to focusing and honing on just one thing, you know, I would almost advance that analogy to that of career planning for sort of the next cmo, which is to say, at some point, you're going to have to have the courage to say, this is what I do best. And this is where I would design a leadership team and agency partnership and resources to support the areas that are not my top focus and strength so that I can ensure the entire department that I lead is achieving all of its objectives, but to advance to the point where they're ready to say, again, my job isn't to be the leader who's done every job. My job is to be the leader who can lead every job.
Peter Mahoney 31:52
So interestingly, I often give people some advice, and I'm wondering if it's you can validate. I have Tell people because it's my own lived experience, right? That that a good thing to do is to actually, if you want to be a senior executive in marketing, you need to take a role outside of marketing. Because it gives you incredible perspective in whether that's in sales or it's in finance, or it's an HR or it's in product, or whatever it is, I think having a breadth of understanding of a business is extremely valuable. And I think more and more future CMOS, by the way, will have more of a general management background than a classic, you know, a classic, pure just marketing background. So what are your thoughts on that? Am I crazy?
Unknown Speaker 32:40
I don't think you're crazy. And actually one of the trends that I've seen in the last two years, especially having done some work in executive leadership, development, and even executive search is that the CMO role increasingly is being asked to take on some actual functional, responsible For strategy, and if that truth continues to find its way into the job descriptions of the top CMOS in the world, unquestionably CMOS will come from backgrounds that are diverse and include marketing but are not exclusive only to it. You know, I think what I would say, though otherwise, to people that are younger or less experienced in their marketing careers, and really feeling that this is a path they want to keep, you don't necessarily have to completely switch your career domain to learn about it. But you have to make an active and conscious decision to build that into your career development experiences. And whether that comes from, you know, being the person internally who, you know, creates the note the new internal podcasts where you're interviewing people who run the different disciplines inside your organization and being the share of that knowledge within your organization or whether that comes from recognizing that if you're going to choose a list of people to follow on LinkedIn from a thought leadership perspective perspective, make sure a sizable percentage of them come from outside the marketing discipline. I do think it's on the shoulders of every individual emerging marketing leader to take on the responsibility of diversifying their perspective on what moves business forward. And keeping a very narrow set of blinders on to assume that only comes from learning within marketing is short sighted.
Peter Mahoney 34:21
Well, that's, that's great advice. I appreciate that, Julie. So I think we're, we're close to running out of time here. I wanted to just ask before we we wrap up, if people want to learn more about you and your services in your company, where would they go?
Unknown Speaker 34:39
Sure. So I advise everyone to go to demand spring.com. If you want to learn a little bit more about marketing, executive coaching, we have a lush group of blog posts on that topic, but it's also something I love to talk about. So in the interest of being as personal as possible, feel free to drop me an email if you want to learn more. I'm always happy to talk about something I'm passionate about and exactly Coaching falls in that category. My email easy. It's just Julie at demand spring calm.
Peter Mahoney 35:05
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Julie. It's really great to have you on the show and I really appreciate your insights. They were incredibly valuable. And Kelsey, I think it's time to bring us home.
Kelsey Krapf 35:17
Yeah, thanks, Julie. We love learning about the benefits of you know, executive coaching and certain roadblocks that CMOS face in order to reach their full potential. If you haven't checked out the article, you can do it on our blog, make sure to follow the next CMO and Plannuh on Twitter and LinkedIn. And if you have any ideas for topics or guests, you can email them to thenextcmoplannuh.com
Have a great day, everyone.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai